The vinyl, the video, the analysis, the debate, the waffle are sidetracks to the main event. The CRACK! is momentous but momentary and all the rest are ripples in its resonance.

To attempt a reasoned comprehension with the hand-me-down criteria of the r'n'r circus is tangential to the nature of the CRACK! It's more a question of intuition.

"People overlook the direct power of the thing and try to break it down into intellectual terms to confuse people that we're trying to get through to. It's held back with the intellectual bullshit that comes from most major music journalists. Ballet and opera are held back in the same way because they're given that middle-class, intellectual haze.

"The basic power in our music is still there. It's the lowest common denominator and everybody experiences that. Journalists can find hidden meanings that might stop people coming to see us but once they do come ... I don't think it'll make any difference after that."

The four minds ... CRACK! They talk as an entity. No quotes are attributable.

"Quotes are about ego. All four of us work together, everybody puts in their part. Live we each contribute our part to the whole thing so to split it down into individual members is to negate the whole purpose of the exercise.

"On stage we don't have a singer or a drummer, somebody doing this and somebody doing that. We're very flexible, we swap and share all the time. We try and retain that openness in everything we do."

Isn't that just denying ego (Dic. Def. That part of the mind which is organised and has sense of individuality.) when it's probably what's motivating you anyway?

"I don't think it's denying it. In the end the rewards you get back are far greater. You get satisfaction out of it and aren't feeling pissed off because no-one spotted you from the audience. The major problem with the music industry is that it's full of big egos. Most other groups ("other groups!") get successful and then split up. You get a couple of personalities from that group who've used their egos to further their career. The other people involved just get forgotten.

"We all have our own egos and personalities but that's not really what's important. What comes across in the final thing is all our personalities intermingling into one, into a collective. A collective ego rather than separate egos."

Collective laughter.

"We've all got strong personalities which we put in without trying to subdue them and become one in how we all think and act. But when we come across to the public, it is the result of all those personalities."

How often do you argue?

"We don't actually argue much but when we argue we do argue. People are often amazed, even shocked by the feeling we have between ourselves. It's not that we're similar and into similar things. We're from very diverse backgrounds and have different tastes but if we projected the four personalities there wouldn't be anything as strong and clear to concentrate on."

What have you gained by being (in) Test Dept?

"Deafness. Knowledge in different fields which will continue because we're branching out in different ways. Being in Test Dept has never been like being in a straight group where you rehearse a number of songs, do a gig and it ends there. There's always been little diverse jobs that have to be performed by somebody, from making films to putting up scaffolding. That's why it's never boring."

Are you still as affected by the music?

"Oh yeah. And if not then you just hit things harder. We're all a lot deafer than when we started but that's a hazard of the job. When we go back after laying off for a while it can be quite painful and ear shattering."

A Christmas present dilemma solved. For Test Dept the Health And Safety At Work regulations and the new Jane Fonda Workout LP.

"We do quite a lot of physical exercise nowadays. It takes three weeks of practising non-stop to get yourself into a physical condition where you can actually play a 40 minute set without flaking out. The muscles just go.

"You have to be totally committed to it, it's not something you can just do and have another life outside of. It takes up your whole person, your whole being is that. If you're not totally into it and in tune with it you start failing behind. You've got to maintain the momentum."

How is that applied on a day to day basis?

"We run ourselves as a business although we're not exactly financially successful. People assume that when you sign to a record label then immediately they take the workload and you're free to spend your time getting drunk and taking drugs. With us we're still involved in every decision, we don't let the company do hardly anything. Nobody, apart from us, understands what we do. Because we're signed to a record means we've got twice as much work to do. The load increases all the time.

"We soon learned that we can't work in the studio in the same way as we do live. We are coming to understand what we can do to get the same power but in a different way, using the studio as a different medium. We haven't really exploited it yet, we're still basically a live group.

"Then again, there's no necessity to go into the studio and repeat what we do live. There will always be live tapes whether we put them out or whether they are bootlegs. The live thing you can't really capture on record because it's a very visual thing. Working in the studio is something that carries on for a long time, you never fully know what it's all about. You learn all the time There's loads more to be done in that sphere."

And video?

"We use visuals live but there's a lot more potential in doing things with video. There's a lot more technology involved and we could really take that further. Also, it's about getting away from promo videos which are record company hype.

"Because we've made a video we've been told we've sold out. There's a lot of old hacks in the business who think they've seen it all before. It just makes us more determined... to kick them in the teeth."

America (the beautiful land of the sweet sweet CRACK! as the coffee-dunked pound cake hits the tastebuds) how was it?

"The places weren't packed but there was enough interest for there to be an atmosphere. We got a good response, liked the way we actually found stuff to play in the places we were playing. It was good to do something without any hype to it. The people who came are the ones who go to see all the bands. But they weren't used to having the back of their heads ripped off.

"They hadn't had the intellectual paper work to build up an image of us. And England's got such an inflated opinion of itself when it's just a little tinpot island middle of nowhere...

(Ingloriously foundering in its own waste products, the backlash and bad karma of empire ... )

"...And the groups that go to America supposedly to represent what English music is about are just pitiful.

"We had no idea how applicable we were going to be to American audiences and how they were going to relate to our kind of imagery. The New York Times wrote how we could be interpreted as a jazz band 'they play urban music and jazz is music'. So the New York jazz scene all came to our gig as did punk rockers, critics and a few beatniks. They all had the same reaction. They said 'Yes, I can dig this'."

Is there humour in what you do?

"Yeah, definitely. It's no that apparent to lot of people. It's quite obvious in the video... isn't it?

(I'm fond of the part where a video driver's head goes through the screen.)

"And on the album, read the title hear what the song is about. There's a tongue in a cheek there. People would get very bored if it was a really heavy trip we were laying on them.

"People have a really odd picture of us, they think we lead monastic existences, Buddhist monks. OMMM! A lot think we're really depressed but nothing could be further from the truth. We're not flippant but at the same time we're not so engrossed in dogma that we can't see our arse from our elbow."

I can see the headlines now. Test Dept – The Four Gag Merchants Of The Apocalypse. What a CRACK!